TOPIC DETAILS
Posted By : Rksh Posted On : Aug 10, 2017
Subject :Horrible payment at Hyd....Will anyone survive by
Again and again....Am forced to post this topic...

Copernicus which won yesterday was paid 232 win at Kol.... And Hrc paid 66.....is there any relation between those two amounts?? Taking for granted... These fellows are making payouts worst... I played 15k win n 15k shp for which I got just 1,98,000....( I lost already 2L in before races)...

Last race winner ( I had not played) Uptown Girl was paid 198 at Kol..and 100 here...This keeps on repeating and repeating....Looks like am the max..Punter at Tote....and I get very very very low if I win.....

Can't win Races..
a
  shaps said ... On : 8/12/2017 6:34:20 AM
Divide your amount in 3 lot's and play at 3 different bookies, and make a note of odd's and amount details of each bookie.

Do not wait till the last minute. Play about 5 minutes before the start.

Your problem should be over and you should feel happy.

  Rksh said ... On : 8/11/2017 12:18:27 PM
Thanks Rhaghavanji, Shaps, C. P, Madmax, Bhashar and others who replied...

U are 100%correct in ur views to stop playing at Tote. But there are 2 issues for me

First, basically am a big punter... And I see Bookies at Hyd not accepting my bets more than 15k on 8/1 horses many times... I try to play max on flukes.. And they waste my time in last minutes before start of race by creating confusion to accept or not, by calling their bosses or others..I don't know till last minute whether they accept my bet full amount at their displayed odds or not.. There are instances where I Ran rushing back to tote with full line in front in last minute.

Second.. Am in my profession and own practice at periphery where Im accessible to IVB tote only... So no chance of bookies...
But seeing these rates given by tote.. Am extremely depressed and hence posted... Thx

  PraveenS said ... On : 8/11/2017 10:52:20 AM
Dividend difference is common which happens. But the real issue is 28% GST should be deducted from Race club commission not from the race turnover. GST (Goods & Service tax) so tax should be deducted from the commission of the race clubs because they are providing service and not from the turnover of every race.

  raghavan said ... On : 8/10/2017 9:42:49 PM
@Bashar,

My suggestion to go and try forecast/trinella pool was only to those modest bettors who do not part with more than 1000 per race. For 2000/, 5000/, 10000 or still higher bettors, that option does not exist.

After seeing the big gap between the bookie odds and tote payouts (courtesy GST), I have for all purpose stopped the betting for win & place. How can you drag your body near the tote, if the display for place is 10, 11, 12 on our fancied horses. Perhaps my total win bets in the last 40 days is around 12k.

Now, again only addressed to those modest 1000 or below bettors: You are 100% correct. Getting right number for forecast is not easy. But, whenever you are smart enough to find the correct numbers the returns are quite attractive.

And again Mr Bashaar,

The days of betting for win, place at tote are over. Once in a way you can risk 1k or 2k on a long (15/1 or more) shot like RKSH. But betting on favorites for win/ or favorites/2nd/3rd favorites for place is horribly bad . If your horse finishes in top 3 you will get money back. Else????

So, stop betting at tote. For win/place. SHP still giving good roi. Decision is yours. CCTV at Hyderabad displays what the dividend you can expect. If you have any inclination to bet on a horse that is showing 10/- or more for place, then bet. Else go to the nearest tea stall or juice stall.

  raghavan said ... On : 8/10/2017 9:17:26 PM
@RKSH.

1. Uptown girt, 100/- dividend at HYD is almost same as Kolkata dividend. KOL unit bet is 10/- and at HYD it is 5. A punter who has staked 1000 at HYD will get 20,000 whereas a punter who has backed 1000 at KOL will collect only 19800/-. (Rs. 200/- short).

2. Variation in tote payout is too common scenario. I will give one glaring example. Brave Girl won on 13/5/2017 at BNG. Paid a hefty 380 for tenner.

Now, let us see the dividend paid on this horse at other centers.

Mumbai: 1927; Kolkata 879. Hyderabad 763. Mumbai/Kolkata unit bet is 10/-. So, if adjusted to 10/-, Hyd dividend is 1526/-.

"Ek dhoonde to hazar milthe hain"! If you have time & patience and go through the dividends paid at various centers, you will not get just one or two instances of variation. You will actually get to see 1000s.

Now, I can not speak about Kolkata because I do not know the facts. Even then I venture a guess. On a horse quoted at 30/1, (for place 8/1), if you bet shp at Kolkata, in all probability you will not get more than 30/- as dividend. KOL tote sales on shp is less than one lakh. I do not know about the quantum of sales on win pool at KOL. But if your 15k had reached the KOL tote, the dividend there would have dropped to at least 200.

Now, as I said earlier, variation is too common. So, you had a claim on win dividend at Kolkata rates only if you had punched ticket at KOL. At HYD, only HYD dividend. So, the better & more realistic comparison will be only against the bookie odds.

What odds the bookie gave for Copernicus? What would you have received if your bet was 13,400 with the bookies. (For 13,400 the bookie tax at 12% is 1600).

  Confused P said ... On : 8/10/2017 5:44:18 PM
@ RKSH

As mentioned, HYD and MAD totes have 5 Rs. unit bets whereas all others have 10 Rs. unit bets, so though it seems less in terms of payout, the odds of return would be more or less equal.

Also the basic of tote is that it acts as a single bookmaker servicing thousands with a collection of say 30 to 40 laks, so naturally dividends are low, as only what is in the kitty can be redistributed. A bookmaker services say 200 people per race and the risk he takes can be more than the total collection per race, so the odds offered by individual bookmakers are as per their risk threshold and of course they pass on the risk to others inside the ring or bookies operating outside.

For Win and Place, the bookies are always a better option. For higher odds, if you pump in 25 K or 50, naturally the dividends would come down in tote....

Tote in only for shp, FC, tanala, TR, JP etc .....

  Dr.Bashaar said ... On : 8/10/2017 1:29:33 PM
Mr.Rksh,
I fully agree with you and all other HT members who have expressed their opinion. I was shocked when I saw the dividends of the last race of Hyderabad on 7th Aug. The dividends for place were Rs 5/6/6 for the 1st 3 placed horses...Right. The Bookmakers odds ( outside were 70/100 for the winner/ No.8..3rd placed horse was 5to 1/ and no 7..i.e. 2nd placed horse was 8 to 1. How do anyone justify 20 paise odds for place on a horse which is quoted 8 to 1 for win. I am sure in other centers where bookmakers are operating people who wanted to play No 7 for place must have got not less than 7/10. ( May be I am wrong ).. To get 20 paise returns on your investment for place ( which is as good as money back ) why should any punter risk a horse ( which is quoted at 8 to 1 for win ).. doesnt sound any logic at all. Punters who are forced to back in tote are getting a royal drubbing. Punters who are investing big in Tote ( like say for eg 20K ) have to understand that out of their investment ( 5.6K + club commission ) - already taken over by club... for this punter to get any profit on his investment, he has to wait for other punters to make some non sense bets ( which will make them lose ) ( and after deductions from their investment if suitable amount remains ).. then only the punter who has invested big can win!!!
As Mr.Madmax rightly said if you lose in 1 race and win in next 3 races also.. it is very unlikely that you may recover your 1st bet's loss. This is the exact advantage what a big punter ( what I mean is one who plays a higher amount ) has- when he plays with a big bookmaker. Like if a punter loses in the 1st race.. he can suitably increase his betting unit in the next race and adjust his betting in such a way ( as to recover the loss in the next race )- as the odds are known- ( whether he can win or lose more is a different issue.) In other words a punter who has lost in the 1st race- has a chance of recovering his loss in the next race from bookmaker's kitty, which can never happen in tote betting.
I had seen Mr.Raghavan suggesting that punters can change their betting pattern .. like instead of playing win/place in tote they should consider other options like forecast /tanalla etc. To catch 1 winner or a horse which can come in place itself is so difficult.. then imagine 1st/2nd/3rd placed horses..it is surely not big punter's cup of tea. Punters who come to race course with an intention of making profit ( whether it happens or not is different ) cant play in tote .. for 20 paise place on a horse which is being offered at 8 to 1 for win. Mr.Raghavan may also ask me to give details of other races returns also ( for comparison ) which is too much to do here. But overall if you see the returns on win and place for the 1st 3 or 4 fancied horses is always too less in tote now a days than what it would be B'lore before June 30th. This is exactly what all punters are complaining about. Earlier good number times the tote odds in B'lore used to to be so good I have witnessed some bookmakers also playing in tote ( if the tote odds are better than their odds ).
Well what I have expressed is my opinion.. I apologize now itself if few dont agree with my way of thinking.
Dr.Bashaar

  svkraju said ... On : 8/10/2017 11:27:40 AM
@ RKSH

OUR HYD TOTE GIVING FAR BETTER DIVIDENDS RIGHT NOW. ACTUALLY BNG TOTE USED TO PAY MORE BEFORE GST , BUT NOT NOW. THE PROBLEM IS ACTUALLY WITH YOU, BECAUSE YOU PLAYED HEAVY AMOUNT ON COPERNICUS , THATS THE REASON YOU GOT LESS AMOUNT. UPTOWN GIRL PAYED AT 100 RS FOR RS5, IN KOLKOTA PAYED 198 RS FOR EVERY RS10. SO HYD PAY IS BETTER BY RS2.


MY SUGGESTION AND ALSO REQUESTING YOU THAT DONT PLAY HIGH AMOUNTS LIKE RS 50K AND MORE IN TOTE. IT WONT GIVE GOOD AMOUNTS IN ANY TOTE INCLUDING BNG. BETTER PLAY IN BOOKIES ,SURELY YOU WILL GET MORE.


TAKE THE ABOVE AS SUGGESTION. ALL THE BEST

  N RAGHAVENDRAN said ... On : 8/10/2017 11:16:28 AM
Dear Mr.Rksh

First We can compare ODDS with Bookmakers only it may differ each and every bookmakers in different centers. (Even in Chennai bookies will give different odds one will give for longer odds 10 to 1, other will give 20 to 1 but the second will take minimum 1K few bookmakers only accept 500)

In Tote I thing Kol Rs.10/- Per Unit, In Hyd Rs.5/- Unit

And in Kol not much on that Particulars Horse, in Hyd like you so many people may be played.

In Bengaluru / Chennai we can see the approx dividend will display before we play, so that we can expect the amount! may be one or two rs. we may loose or gain after the races.

regards
N Prakash

  shaps said ... On : 8/10/2017 11:15:23 AM
My suggestion is play win or place at bookies only at 12% half tax, and SHP at tote.

Do not under any circumstances play win or place at tote, or else your complaint will repeat.

Nobody is forcing you to play at tote.

In racing. being sincere to club or govt does not help.

  Mad Max said ... On : 8/10/2017 11:01:44 AM
You lose one race and win subsequent 3 races (favourites), still you will not recover your first loss. BTC should introduce Bookmakers as fast as they can. There is no alternative. But there is a problem. If they reintroduce bookmakers, entire punters will boycott tote and bet only with bookmakers. So BTC need at least 100 bookmakers inside the premises. BTC can easily terminate entire counter staff and invite the wrath of the state government. So there is no hope the bookmakers will return. Doomsday for horse racing.