TOPIC DETAILS
Posted By : Mad Max Posted On : Jun 16, 2017
Subject :How to claim TDS deducted on Exemption Amount?

Hi Friends,
(1) I have got one Jackpot during Assessment Year 2016-17 BTC not allowed Exemption amount 5000 and deducted entire TDS @ 30% from the Gross Dividend.

(2) I have got another Jackpot during A.Y. 2017-18 and here again BTC not allowed Exemption Amount 10000 during AY. 2017-18.

BTC issued both TDS certificates to me and the same is visible on the IT website (26AS).

For the first time in my life I have handed over these TDS Certificates to my Chartered Accountant to get the refund against the excess TDS deducted by the BTC on both occasions. Unfortunately My CA is also handling "Income from Horse racing" for the first time, he is not sure under which section this 10000 is exempted. He is using some software for filing the returns but in his software programme also only Gross dividend and TDS (30%) deducted are displayed. He says there is no provision or column available in his programme to claim the TDS deducted on EXEMPTION AMOUNT of Rs 10000.

In a previous thread some Horse Talkers vehemently supported BTC and requested us file the IT returns and claim the refund. Now I am asking you all, let me how to claim it, under which section it is being exempted. Why the programme is not showing the Exemption Amount Column...? Can anyone help me out?

Thank you in advance !

a
  Mad Max said ... On : 6/23/2017 3:33:08 PM
@ Hi all,

I have already taken up the matter in a different way, chosen another guy to proceed further, and I am promised that I will get the refund for me. I just don't want to reveal the details for now, waiting for one week. Follow this thread, hopefully some updates will be posted soon on this front.

  FYI said ... On : 6/23/2017 12:44:27 PM
Come back to your query

""Now I am asking you all, let me how to claim it, under which section it is being exempted. Why the programme is not showing the Exemption Amount Column...? Can anyone help me out?""

answer for this is you can't, rest is up-to you, fight with the BTC or claim it by hook or crook or a different adjustment (which is not suggest-able) that's all but as per the law it is not possible.

And welcome to reality.

different states; different state laws, different petrol price, different tax rates, things are different my friend, yours is one of such thing.

when you are sick you don't question the doctor why he is giving you an antibiotic instead of a paracetamol, doctor knows the body better and the infections in it, its you who control your body, your nutrition, your intakes etc. now you decide how you wanna interpret and if you willing to get a change for all the punters there are methods; Lawyers, Public Interest Litigation (PIL)etc., etc.,

All the Best.

PS you are not getting the refund by the right way though.



  STV,chennai said ... On : 6/22/2017 10:53:58 AM
Mad Max,
I have confined myself to the relevant sections of Income Tax Act and the interpretation.I have also opined that because of ambiguity in the interpretation of the section,there is bound to be some confusion on the part of those liable to deduct taxes.
I would like to point out that a deeper scrutiny of a subject is indulged in by anyone only in case a personal necessity.
I would very much like to go thro the case law prevalent on the subject and revert at the earliest.

  stop fooling punter said ... On : 6/22/2017 9:48:49 AM
I can imagine your frustration having paid tax [not required]now unable to recover.

How ever filing a return will not get your money back unless the conditions i specified are met.
Your course of action Get the TDS certificate from BTC and than approach the local IT officer for clarification.citing DEL and Cal rulings.

It will be more of pleading than demanding, IT officers get cheesed if some thing is asked from them as refunds

  Mad Max said ... On : 6/20/2017 10:10:35 PM
@ FYI
@ STV Chennai

You don't know anything about the issue. Just quoting few Sections is not enough. Here I request you to read the case files published in the following links:

www.filereturn.com/tds-on-horse-race-winnings-section-194bb

That is the reasons RWITC, DRC and RCTC remove the floor limit of 10000 before TDS @ 30%.

It is to be recalled DRC and RCTC management have had expert Tax Consultants who understood "what is exemption means" and these Clubs always removed the exempted amount first and TDS deducted only on the remaining Dividend only.

That is the reason respective Assessment Officers of ITD Delhi and ITD Kolkata issued notices to DRC and RCTC and questioned why Exemption allowed to Punters and why TDS not deducted on full dividend? They demanded Lakhs of rupees in arrears along with interest, that compelled RCTC and DRC went on appeal before the I.T. Tribunal Kolkata and Delhi respectively. They got the verdict in favour of the Race Clubs and that is the reason they remove the Exempted Amount first from the Gross Dividend and deduct the TDS only on remaining amount. Since DRC is under RWITC, RWITC also doing the same thereby the punters are benefited in these states.

Do you think Income Tax Tribunals at Delhi and Kolkata are mad to issue orders against ITD Delhi and Kolkata in their respective appeals? My question is why two laws in different states. Race Clubs in Maharashtra, Delhi, West Bengal are allowing the Exemption straight away then why Race Clubs in Karnataka not fighting this case. Why BTC cannot fight the case against ITD Bangalore or go for an appeal before IT Tribunal, Bangalore and help the punters. Or was it an adjustment with the State Government to put ITD Bangalore in profit at the expense of Punters. I think so because BTC and MyRC are enjoying MINIMUM TAX CUTS in INDIA (8% and 4%) on tote collection till today. Post GST the scenario will change, only one question remains whether BTC will continue to favour the Income Tax Department with 30% deduction on Exempted Amount after the implementation of GST?

@ SFP
Under these thread there are so many guys say NO REFUND Possible. So many others say REFUND is possible. Majority of them are shooting their mouth off.


  stop fooling punter said ... On : 6/20/2017 5:33:17 PM
M.M. the problem is with BTC and MYS,Why they are not allowing 10,000 deduction.They should give you this deduction.RWITC is not deductingany tax upto rs 10000

Your filing I.T return and trying to claim refund is a an excercise in futality.

There are no provisions for any refunds unless you show losses the way outlined to you.Also the losses cannot exceed tax deduction from racing.
It cannot be clubbed with any thing else.

  FYI said ... On : 6/20/2017 3:55:53 PM
Hello,

First of all it is funny thing here people advising to change CA's. If at all you keen on knowing the subject then stop punting and get to the books I bet you, it will be bouncers for next three years or five years of life or may be things are changed by the time u understand the law.

In simple words,

Exemption Limit - Rs. 10,000.00 (The whole will be eligible for TDS if exceeds the limit in a single transaction)

194BB. Any person, being a bookmaker or a person to whom a licence has been granted by the Government under any law for the time being in force for horse racing in any race course or for arranging for wagering or betting in any race course, who is responsible for paying to any person any income by way of winnings from any horse race in an amount exceeding [ten thousand rupees] shall, at the time of payment thereof, deduct income-tax thereon at the rates in force.

so basically if your winnings were less than Rs. 10000 in the single transaction there would be no TDS, and since it is more than 10K TDS is deducted and the same cannot be claimed as refund.

Income Tax deducted from such winnings is non refundable neither No deductions are allowed as per Sec 58(4) of Income Tax Act 1961.

If people in the comments section have received their refunds, then they might have received refunds with relate to their other incomes (Business/House Property/Salary/Capital Gains)

I would ask you not to think too much about it bcoz people commenting here hardly review their ITR or its their friends doing it, justifying that they aren't aware of the subject.

Caution: I would suggest you to not wake the sleeping lion, inviting 142(1) followed by 143(1) & 143(2), I don't think people here needs the meaning for these sections :D ;)

  STV,chennai said ... On : 6/20/2017 2:18:46 PM
Mad Max,
I am sure that you know section 144BB.
I am reproducing the same for discussion of relevant points only.

SECTION 194BB
"Any person ,being a bookmaker or a person to whom licence has been granted by Government under any law for the time being in force for horse racing in any race course or for arranging for wagering or betting in any race course,who is responsible for paying to any person any income by way of winnings from any horse race in an amount exceeding rupees 10000, shall at the time payment deduct income tax thereon at the rates in force."

The section makes it mandatory on the part of the paying authority to deduct tax [TDS] where the payment exceeds 10000.But has it made clear whether the TDS is to be made on the entire dividend or on amount arrived at after deduction of 10000.
It is on account of this ambiguity that certain centers play it safe by deducting TDS on the entire amount of winnings\dividends.I am glad to note that other centers like RWITC have gone by the spirit of the section and not by the wordings therein.
I am at a loss to understand your presumption that the TDS OF 30% is non refundable and goes to the coffers of I.T.Dept.How to claim refund of the TDS,wherever applicable or to adjust the TDS amount against the tax liability for the year,I have already made clear in my earlier post here.

  Mad Max said ... On : 6/20/2017 12:35:30 PM
@ STV Chennai

Section 194BB deals with deduction of TDS in the case of winning from HORSE RACES only. Under this section TDS has to be deducted by the Club on the amount above the Exempted amount of 10000/-. So the Clubs like RWITC, DRC, RCTC deduct 10000 first from the Gross Dividend to get the Taxable Income. Thereafter the TDS deducted @ 30% goes to the IT Dept (Non-refundable) and balance 70% goes to the Winner. There are so many articles available on the net, you can search it.

  Mad Max said ... On : 6/20/2017 12:12:28 PM
@ Albert Khare

You are talking about tote dividends paid and TDS deducted at RCTC. For your information, RCTC is the first Race Club in India fought the case against ITD, Kolkata and obtained the Orders from IT Tribunal in favour of the Club as well as punters. So it is natural you punters based there get the benefit. Thereafter DRC fought the case against ITD, Delhi before IT Tribunal, Delhi, referring the Case Orders of Kolkata and they also obtained the Orders in favour of DRC/Punters. Apropos these Orders RWITC, DRC, RCTC EXEMPT first 10000/- from the Gross Dividend and pay TDS @ 30% on NET TAXABLE INCOME. So there is no question of refund, please once again ask your CA my explanation is correct or not. If otherwise he got a refund, please ask him under WHICH SECTION of the IT ACT he got the refund? Hope you will oblige.

Humbly request you to read the Case Details and Tribunal Orders below:
www.filereturn.com/tds-on-horse-race-winnings-section-194bb

My question is simple - Why two Laws in different States, when Income Tax Department comes under the Government of India. Interpretation of laws should be same all over the 29 states and 7 Union Territories in India. Hope you will take interest on this subject, consult your CAs and help the Bangalore Punters from the evils.

  STV,chennai said ... On : 6/20/2017 11:32:45 AM
Mad Max,
As per section 194[BB],a person or a licensed authority should deduct tax at source at the rate of 30% wherever the payment is above 5000[now 10000].The section does not refer to any deductions to be made by way of investment cost.As such the racing authorities play it safe by deducting TDS at the specified rate of 30%from the entire dividend.
The option is always there to claim credit for this and other TDS at the time of calculating taxable income and taxes due on them.
Form 26 AS is a facility to know all the taxes deducted by various authorities;it also exhibits taxes one has paid during the relevant previous year by way of Advance Tax etc.This enables the tax payer to claim credit for them while paying the tax due and filing the return of income.
What you state as point no 8 in your reply is not clear to me.The TDS as shown in FORM 26AS enables one to deduct them from the tax liability for the year.

  Albert Khare said ... On : 6/20/2017 12:07:08 AM
Firstly there is no question about ambiguity in our tax law and most is left to interpretation.
I have checked with my CA and he says I have actually got refund on the TDS Deducted by respective clubs on gross payment.
If you are so certain that no return is possibly why waste everyone's time.
I have nothing to gain by misguiding others, honestly I myself wasn't too sure.
While trying to understand GST I have realised the reason it's so confusing is so we continue to need CAs and accounts.
And also so there can be various loop holes found incase one wants.
I may seem pragmatic but for someone having little free time will find it impossible to grew grasp the tax system.

  stop fooling punter said ... On : 6/19/2017 7:37:33 PM
A friend who won many thousands few years back wanted to offset his losses in the same year was advised. by his CA.

Get a detailed stste ment of losses from your bookies giving time date and losses.the bookie has to mentioned his TAN and PAN NUMBER

He did not file any return.Profit can only be off set against losses.

Your horse racing income will be clubbed with normal incomeas taxed as such.

If your annual income is less than taxable one than only You can claim refund not otherewise.

Your CA is just charging you and wasting your time

  Mad Max said ... On : 6/19/2017 5:52:11 PM
@ STV Chennai

(1) Normally RWITC, DRC and RCTC deduct the Floor Limit (Amount Exempted) of 10000 (from 1 June 2016) from the Gross Dividend declared and also the "Full Investment" mentioned in your winning ticket to arrive at the Net Taxable Dividend on which 30% TDS deducted.

(2) Here at BTC, they say the investment of a successful winning jackpot ticket (all 5 legs) the investment is only Rs.10. If you have accommodated three four horses in each legs the investment of such permutation ticket shall be high. Rwitc, DRC, RCTC consider the total amount mentioned in the Ticket as our investment and exempt from the tax. At BTC they exempt only Rs 10 from the total Gross Dividend and on the remaining entire amount they will charge 30% TDS. Then what about the Exempted Amount of Rs.10000 why our Finance Ministers continued to announce this during Budget every year. Here at BTC they don't allow this 10000 exemption and charge TDS 30% on this also, that way the punter is losing Rs.3000 instantly.

(3) Here the Officials concerned sometime admit the punter should get one time Exemption of 10000 during a financial year. After consultation with their subordinates the seniors retreat from their earlier statements. Flatly they say go and find another CA and he will do the rest and get the refund for you.

(4) We can also file the Returns online it is very easy. Once 26AS is reflected in our account there is no refund possible. My CA says you can appeal the Race Club to revise their TDS Returns however the officials are hiding something and not ready to listen further. Even they do not suggest any names or phone numbers of Private Auditors, or even explain under which section refund is possible.

(5) I am not worried about the excess amount deducted from ticket, Rs.3000 is a small amount. Last FY I lost 1500. But the important question is how long they cheat the punters.

(6) The article in www.filereturn.com say that IT Dept Delhi presented before the Tribunal that the refund is possible under section 10(3). I searched google found this section is related to Horse Racing but without clear explanation we cannot proceed further.

(6) If you read the replies of the Horse Talkers, you can see how divergent their opinions are most of them are blindly practicing 100m rifle shooting.

(7) Winnings from horse racing NOT FALLS UNDER "Income from other sources". 194BB CLEARLY POINTS TO "Winning from Horse Racing". Section 194B is "Winning from Lotteries, Card Games, Crossword, etc". Once the 26AS is reflected no refund possible.

(8) The people file the IT Returns are eligible for a Rebate of Rs. 5000 if the Income is below 2,50,000/- you will get the refund. That is entirely a different subject and not concerned with TDS deducted from your Jackpot Dividend. Even if you combine NORMAL INCOME & HORSE RACING INCOME and file the returns you cannot touch the TDS deducted and reflected on 26AS form because there is no refund is allowed/possible.

(9) Here the culprit is none other the club/BTC, and the ITD Bangalore. How we can tackle this issue. At least future generation should sleep peacefully, for which what we can do, should do immediately. I request Horse Talkers please join me for the Final Fight against the defaulters.

  STV,chennai said ... On : 6/19/2017 1:10:33 PM
Mad Max,
The Indian Income Tax categorises Income for the year as arising from the following sources:-

1.Salary
2.House Property
3.Capital Gains
4.Business\Profession
5.Other Sources.

The total of these [after allowable deductions,if any,is the Total Income for the year.
From out of this Total Income,Deductions are available on account of specified investments etc.
The net income is termed 'Taxable Income'
The Taxable Income is subject to tax at different rates,the maximum being 30%.

Winnings from horse racing falls under the classification "Income from other sources".
Now coming to your query,under which section you can claim exemption from tax on the excess deduction,the answer is this:-
1.You have to file the I.T.R.for the relevant year.
2.In case you do not have any other income to be included there and your taxable income falls well below the minimum taxable limit, you are eligible to get the entire amount [deducted at source.]refunded.
3.In case you have other sources of income[which seems the reality]and the tax on taxable income is less than the amount of TDS ,you are eligible to get the refund for the excess amount.
4.In case your taxable income and taxes due on them are more than all the TDS for the year,you are liable to pay the balance tax.

Hope I am clear.

  Mad Max said ... On : 6/19/2017 10:53:04 AM
@ Indiarace Admin

BTC and their Accounts Department is not cooperating with me, they are making contradictory statement every time. BTC is wrongly deducting TDS on Entire Dividend, it is contrary to CBDT circulars. They are not allowing the Exemption amount on winning and TDS deducted on this too.

Please publish this letter addressed to Mr.Chanakya as it is important to talk to CA who is dealing with TDS on hose race winnings under section 1944B and refund. Since the CA is Mumbai based his Contact Numbers are available on www.filereturn.com I am mentioning this web address to him. So that he can contact the CA, and revert to Horse Talk.

@ Chanakya Sir
Please talk to C.A.Nikunj Shah, Chartered Accountant based in Cumbala Hill, Mumbai who is well conversant over all Tax Laws, including deductions under 194BB. His contact details are available at www.filereturn.com. Please discuss BTC issue to him and kindly revert back with the remedies. Hope you will do this for the benefit of the Punters based in South.

  Albert Khare said ... On : 6/19/2017 2:34:42 AM
I have never sincerely reviewed my ITR as the person who does it is a life long friend.
Without getting into the exact details.
I will share what I found two years back.
The highest tax bracket (excluding the super rich) is 30% and TDS is deducted on earning from racing under this slab.
My earning for FY2013/2014 was well below the taxable threshold, yet as mandated? I filled for my return and the entire tax deducted in RWITC and RCTC was returned to me.
There was a thread started on other website discussing various tax methods applied by diffrent club the discussion may have got in TDS return and I had stated the same.
You need to show earning from racing as additional income and adjust your exempted outgoing accordingly. If you earn above a particular threshold then you are supposed to be taxed at various rates, assuming most here don't make enough to pay 30% tax there is bound to be some refund.
If you are unsure you can post your queries to Bangalore ITR and should get an accurate answer.
Please note I am not an expert in the above matter and have already stated I have never had the need to learn much about it.
Also note. The way we frame our questions has a lot to do with what answer we get.
By which I mean. If you say you have been taxed at 30% because it's earning from racing and now want to know how to claim a refund you may get a response that you can't.
However if you say your total earning for the year was 350000 for last year and total TDS deducted (work, business, race) was "X" and you should get a refund of "Y" how do I break up my various sources of income?
Keep in mind. Earning from FD, bank interest, rent, capital gain are all income which generally goes under "others source of income"

  raghavan said ... On : 6/18/2017 10:57:30 AM
I said file returns & take refunds. But the Auditor thinks otherwise. And, I have no regrets that I took a different stand earlier. Now, I am ready to accept the version of the Auditor. A professional his words always carry higher weightage.

Earlier, I was under the impression that filing returns and getting refund is just like encashing a self cheque across the counter. That is what the feed back I was getting whenever I started this subject with fellow punters.

I should have spoken to the Auditor. But, the Auditor is known to me and my family members; is still thinking that I am pucca tee-totaller, non gambler. So rather shy of disclosing this habit to him. Not only me, too many punters are sailing in the same boat. For that matter, I can refer to one Mad-Max. He has disclosed his tds from race wins to the auditor for the first time.

Why Mumbai handles the issue in a different manner. A point for which only the income tax officers of the concerned cities can give some authoritative reply.

Old men like me have no stamina to pursue the matter to its logical end. Even if we are willing to take some meaningful measures, we can not actually take up the cause because that shall be an admission before our children/wife that we are punters. At this old age, I feel no quarrel with them is much worth than the 1500s that has been taken away from me.

Youngsters like Mad Max appear to have higher level of zeal & commitment. I think & hope that they also have much higher freedom at the home-front. So, I am willing to hear something pro-active from him. His efforts and the result. Even if the result turns out negative, that is in no way discredit to anyone. Let the Almighty also keep him younger (like Markandeya) for centuries.

  Mad Max said ... On : 6/18/2017 8:40:51 AM

@ Skumar

Whatever they said I published here. I dont think I have made any progress ahead. Because in reality these people are "hiding" something from me.

Reasons:
1. When I claimed the NET DIVIDEND (after TDS) on both occasions, I requested the Accounts Department the correct procedure is first "deduct the EXEMPTION AMOUNT from the Gross Dividend then calculate the TDS on NET GAIN". Then they replied me "You file your IT Returns and Claim the Refund".

2. When I countered, they detailed me that BTC cannot detect whether the Punter has "AVAILED ONE TIME EXEMPTION EARLIER OR NOT", so they deduct TDS on entire amount and deposit it in CIT account. So the Assessee/Punter/Deductee can only claim the refund after filing the IT returns.

3. I believed that and asked my CA to do the needful. But as I have already explained, the CA says it is not possible as per the Taxation Software programme he is using, since all calculations are done automatically by the system itself. Under Section 194BB the Deductor/BTC deducts TDS @ 30% and the TDS amount deposited in CIT Account, this displayed in the IT website (26AS). It means Deductor(BTC) deducted 3000 on the amount exempted (10000) and deposited this 3000 in the CIT Account. Why?

4. Yesterday When I contacted Accounts Department, the man in Chair repeated the same statement as per para-2 above. When I said my CA says now it is not possible to claim the refund, because the Exempted Amount should have been deducted by BTC at the time of payment and TDS should have calculated on NET GAIN only. On this the Accounts Officer said, if the BTC system not exempted 10000, then you (me) might have already availed the one time exemption during this financial year. I flatly denied, BTC never allowed the Exemption Amount in both financial years. Then he asked me to tell the Jackpot Ticket No., and TDS Certificate etc.

5. I returned to my Office, collected the necessary papers, again visited the Accounts Department. This time he did not entertain me, instead asked me to visit Tote Manager and explain him. I don't understand why jumped the Gulati all of a sudden.

6. Then I moved on to TM's cabin and explained the matter in detail. Initially he told me "his job is to deduct the TDS on entire amount and deposit in CIT account. Once the TDS is deposited his job is over. Then I argued why you people change the statements often? Accounts Department say something. You say opposite to that. What BTC does, RWITC and DRC do opposite to that. I argued my case strongly. Other Race Clubs deduct exemption amount instantly and calculate TDS on NET GAIN and pay the balance instantly. Why TWO TYPE OF INCOME RULES ADOPTED BY VARIOUS STATES. TM was trying to escape from further arguments, to his rescue the so called Auditor entered, to whom I was introduced by TM, and TM washed his hands.

7. Initially, the Auditor himself was trying to avoid me. When persisted with reasons, he replied so many punters claimed the refund, you need to change the CA etc. However he felt not comfortable to give his contact number, hence I given my number to him. He promised to call me up today. But I don't think he will call me. They way these people talked, changed statements repeatedly. I doubt something big is brewing on this front inside BTC. I think it is a conspiracy not to allow the punters their legitimate money. And I am not convinced, whether the Auditor will turn up today or call me up? A punter is a customer of the BTC. As a customer my second step is to approach the Consumer Redressal Forum that I will do next week itself if nothing serious coming out today.


  skumar said ... On : 6/17/2017 9:28:02 PM
@ Maxy,

Excellent , Way to go Maxy....

The solution to your problem should be a way forward to all the Ht'ians infact...

Pls do post the developments and lets share the news update for benefit of one and all..


Regards

SK

  Part Time Punter said ... On : 6/17/2017 8:50:22 PM
Dear Madmax,

TDS on your winnings has been deducted u/s 194BB of IT Act, 1961. The applicable rate is 30 percent, if your winnings exceed INR 10000. There will not be any deduction allowable on the investment made and the entire amount (winning + investment) is taken into consideration for TDS deduction.

Furthermore, you are required to pay 30 percent tax u/s 115BB. What you can do is set-off the tax credit appearing in form 26AS against the tax payable u/s 115BB.

There will not be any refund given by the IT department. Yes, I do agree, that the IT Act is quite harsh on the punting community.

  Mad Max said ... On : 6/17/2017 6:21:06 PM
Hi Guys,

Today I have contacted BTC Accounts Department. The man in chair admitted "every punter should get ONE TIME EXEMPTION of Rs.1000 in a financial year". "For a second time in a F.Y. they wont allow the exemption. When I argued that the so called exemption not allowed in my case for once. Then he asked me to contact the Tote Manager. When I contacted him, there was another guy sitting who is an Auditor, TM introduced me to him asked Adr. to help me. Adr. told me that "if your present CA does not know how to file and claim the refund, then you have to find a new Auditor. He claimed more than 2000 people have already claimed the refund. So why you cannot?" When I wanted more details on this aspect, he promised me he will give numbers of some Auditors who are doing this type of particular job tomorrow positively.

1. So it is confirmed by the Accounts Department that at BTC they allow one time exemption in a financial year.
2. It is also confirmed Refund is permissible.
3. So waiting for his call.

More update on this subject tomorrow evening !

  manish said ... On : 6/17/2017 4:42:08 PM
Mad Max,

You can never get a refund. Since the amount is showing in your 26AS alongwith the amount of jackpot, you are now bound to file an income tax return alongwith the balance deposit of tax. And since 31st March has passed, you also have to pay interest on late deposit of income tax.

And in case, you dont file your return, you can be served an income tax notice.

AS regards DRC etc. they are only responsible for deducting tax at source.

So in your case, now it does not matter how much tax BTC has deducted, calculate your income from horse racing, deposit the balance tax with interest and file income tax return.

Thats the rule. full and final.

Punters normally feel benefitted when lower rate of TDS is deducted. It is only beneficial if you defualt in paying balance income tax. I hope you get it.


  Reacher said ... On : 6/17/2017 1:35:17 PM
In windfall incomes like horse racing, the entire income is added to your regular income and taxed as per your slab. You can claim the TDS deducted and you should preserve the TDS cert as proof in case it is needed. Card game winnings like poker etc are illegal per se. You may have to pay compounding fines if you win online or outside the country.

  Mad Max said ... On : 6/17/2017 12:37:25 PM
Previously so many people commented like "file the returns and get the refund", now same old people gave up and say 'no way we get the refund.

My simple question to the detractors...!
Then why RWITC, DRC and RCTC allow this exemption and deduct the amount from the gross dividend to find the taxable income? They deduct TDS after minusing the exemption amount.

Two types of income tax rules cannot be implemented in India. At Bangalore this rule, elsewhere some other rule, don't surrender to such Uthopian rules, at least we educated people should fight. Instead of fighting this illegal deduction certain guys moved on.

  BKD said ... On : 6/17/2017 11:55:09 AM
Mad Max,

TDS deducted from horse race winnings is non-refundable, even if your total income for the year is determined to be below the 'poverty line'

Don't break your head over this matter.....it's not worth it!

If however, you persist with the IT Authorities for a refund....you will be wily-nily opening up a Pandora's Box...which will be even harder for you to explain! Beware!!

Or maybe try and catch the bull by its horns...speak directly to the tote manager/ general manager of BTC and seek their opinion about how to resolve this matter? Can they help...??


  Mad Max said ... On : 6/17/2017 11:45:18 AM
@ Srinivasan
Here nobody complaining about TDS Certificate. Kya Achchar Daloge TDS Certificate ? I have got it after 5-6 months now it is with the CA. So come out of the cabin where you are sitting and read what I said in the title thread carefully.

It seems there is no use. CA says the exemption should have been given by the Club. Since they have deducted the TDS as applicable 30% on full amount, total TDS deducted is shown in 26AS form, so that is not refundable.

@ Raghavan

Yes I have got the TDS certificate from BTC last week.
See the exact picture here.
Assessment year 2016-17: Total Dividend declared 28556 as per form 16 Filled.
Total Investment on that ticket Rs. 360.
But BTC says I have have had only two successful tickets i.e. one 70% + two 30% tickets. So they took it Rs 20 my investment and deducted only Rs 20 from total dividend, i.e. 28556-20 = 28536 on which 30% TDS deducted, i.e. 8561.

The other one is in AY 2017-18.
Total Dividend 53,022
Investment Rs 420/-
(Winning ticket one, 70%+30%, so they deducted Rs 10, taxable income 53,012)
Against this they deducted Rs 15904 TDS.

In both the above cases no Exemption allowed. AY 2016-17 exemption limit was 5000, and AY 2017-18 exemption limit was 10000. So BTC deducted TDS on these amounts also.

I checked with the CA and his Taxation software the amounts are deducted under 194BB automatically and no exemption is allowed in the programme. No additions, exemption, deletions possible.

Now my question is why BTC is punishing the punters. Why dont they take up the matter with the Income Tribunal of this State and help punters, the same way DRC and RCTC done earlier and obtained orders in favour of the punting public..?

@ Narayan
I have gone thru the article. But in Lottery and Card Games Income there is no exemption (threshold limit), but in Horseracing, 10k is exempted. So we cannot mix both. Now what is the remedy, the said articles is not clear.

Now read following article on the precise subject and case orders:
www.filereturn.com/tds-on-horse-race-winnings-section-194bb

Now advise me how to fight the case. Yes I want to take up the case with the IT Tribunal of this part of India. Who will suggest a good advocate cum tax consultant for this purpose? I am ready to pay his fees. Is there anyone like to come forward....?

  STV,chennai said ... On : 6/17/2017 11:05:00 AM
It has been the practice of race clubs to ignore exempted amounts and deduct tax on the entire winning amounts.The fault lies with not only the authorities thereat but also with certain amount of lack of clarity in the relevant sections in Income Tax.The authorities at some race centers just play it safe,thats all.

The Indian Income Tax Act,categorises different sources of taxable income such as income from Salary,House Property etc.Whatever does not fall under these categories is taxed under a head of income titled "Incme from other sources".Winning from horse racing falls under this category.

The subject is broad and wide.For the moment,in case you do not have any other sources of income,you can file IT Return for the concerned Assessment years and show your winning as well as TDS relevant columns and claim refund of excess tax deducted ,if any.

  Manish said ... On : 6/17/2017 10:54:14 AM
Maxy,

First understand the difference between TDs and tax, then we will talk.

  srinivasan said ... On : 6/17/2017 10:05:34 AM
@ Madmax
The procedure to get the Form16 (TDS certificate) from BTC.

1. When you present your winning ticket the system automatically generate a counterslip with every ticket, Did you collect and preserved it?.
2. Usually the tote person will offer you a form in which your name, address and PAN number and you have to fill and sign it. If this is not done the counter person may file the return in some body's name. (As I have mentioned in Point1 you have to preserve the counterslip)
3. After Year end that is March 31, approch the Tote manager he will provide you with TDS certificate for the previous financial year.
4. Once I requested the tote manager to deliver to Jayanagar counter and it was done.
5 IT people will not come to you, they guide you to the trained people who will do the work and for a standard fee.

  Narayan said ... On : 6/17/2017 9:23:34 AM
https://www.google.co.in/amp/s/www.mymoneysage.in/blog/tds-and-income-tax-rates-on-winnings-from-lottery-and-game-shows/amp/

  raghavan said ... On : 6/17/2017 9:17:55 AM
Apart from what Mad Max has stated, there is one more thing also told by me.

"I think there were 8 to 10 occasions when my income was subjected to tds (when the limit was 5000). I have not mentioned even one rupee in my returns".

Mad Max said that he took jp ticket for 420/- that gave him div of over 50k; but misplaced the tds. I asked him to get a duplicate copy of the tds that may help him claim 3000/-.

Till last week, I was under the impression that the exemption is absolute. That is every punter who has been subjected to tds can claim refund as a matter of routine without running from pillar to post. But, after seeing some posts in this thread I am not that confident. Whether there is any exemption allowed as per the rules itself is a big question.

@srinivas,

After the limit was raised to 10k, there was no ticket from my side that big win. There are times when I felt that I have literally thrown around 12k in the drain. (the 8 tds claims earlier to Apr 16, each 1500/-. Some of the tds statements were dated 2014, 2015. In 2015-16 year there were 4. One because a trinella payout was 5032). But, I am not that much worried now.

The turf club at Mumbai has one approach. At BNG a different one.

  skumar said ... On : 6/17/2017 8:45:38 AM
@ Maxy,

Pls go through the following Sections and it may help you understand the Process for the same and also the rules :-

A) Sec 2 (24) (ix)

B) Sec 56 (2) (ib)

C) Sec 194 (B) and 194 (BB)


Regards

SK



  Mad Max said ... On : 6/17/2017 6:27:50 AM
@ Srinivasan
@ Srinivas

You both expressed divergent views. Hope you both are separate individuals.

@ Manish
Then Why RWITC and DRC allow this exemption while paying out.
Why two types of interpretation of a simple rule in India. Why BTC is not passing on this relief to Punters?

@ Srinivasan at 8.53.13 PM

You say BTC issue TDS Certificates within 24 hours. I am clear you have not faced or experienced such a situation at BTC. Here it takes a laborious task and it will take four to 5 months to get the TDS certificates in your hand. Before that you have to Visit the Tote Manager's office at least 5-6 times.

You say IT people will come to your place and file the returns. Are we in Disneyland such things take place? CAs using such software programmes there is no provision to exempt first 10000 from the gross dividend, then how can we get refund?

@ Hi all,
It is somewhat clear... At BTC you wont get a single paise refund. If anybody claimed refund in Karnataka please come forward and please explain. As far as the situation now, I think we have to pay TDS @ 30% on entire winnings/dividends. No exemption whatsoever allowed here.

@ Braganza

Where are you vanished? Please forward your views and opinions if you are reading this.

  Srinivas said ... On : 6/16/2017 10:18:18 PM
@mad max
As far as my experience goes, gains from horse racing are classified as Windfall Gains, and do not qualify for any exemption despite the TDS, even if total income is below taxable limit. I was disallowed refund on that pretext, and thereafter have never bothered to claim the same.

This is my own experience, others who have received refunds against TDS towards large payouts in horse racing,may please detail their experience.

  Manish said ... On : 6/16/2017 10:07:31 PM
Mad max,

Please read the rule. 10000 is the exemption amount for TDS and not for purpose of tax calculation. U have to pay tax on entire amount of jackpot.

  Confused P said ... On : 6/16/2017 10:04:00 PM
Max,

I think this is the right time. Enquire about the cost of filing a PIL against the wrong way of deducting tax by the BTC and file one. BTC is already on its knees and something useful may come out of it. I am sure there would be others also facing the same problem.

  Mad Max said ... On : 6/16/2017 9:11:16 PM
horsetalk.indiarace.com/HTalkPostReply.aspx?msgid=1045539

I have cited Case Articles appearing on following Links when I raised the topic (TDS on Jackpot by BTC on Exempted Amount) on December 26, 2016, to which I have got replies from following gentlemen.

www.filereturn.com/tds-on-horse-race-winnings-section-194bb

Now I need help from the so called gentlemen how to file the IT returns with Horse Racing Income and how to claim the refund.

From ISAAC ALI, Dated 01/01/2017, Time 8.59.51 AM

Mad Max I am amazed ,you seem to know everything in advance..Including how my reply will pan out. The BTC issues a TDS certificate.That's enough to claim a refund. My friends have claimed it.

ISAAC ALI said on 12/31/2016 at 11.09.58 AM

An earlier bitter experience between the IT and BTC has prompted the BTC to take the step of deducting the complete amount via TDS. On filing the returns the punter gets the refund. The BTC sits safe and secure in this case.

Raghavan said on 12/31/2016 at 5.57.23 AM

After 1st April, that copy may be useful for you to claim refund of 3000/- that has been deducted excess from your dividend.

Raghavan said on 12/30/2016 at 8.33.07 AM

There is not a single complaint at the btc. people who accepted the payout tendered and claiming refund from the Central Government department are getting some refunds without having to run from pillar to post.

Over to you fellows !

  srinivasan said ... On : 6/16/2017 8:53:13 PM
These are the things you have to do to claim the amount. I know about BTC only

1. Contact Tote manager and request him to provide the Form16 by providing your name, PAN number and the Financial year. With in 24 hours he will provide you
the Form16 indicating the Total amount and tax deducted. (Your auditor will can open an account with IT dept. with pass word)
2. With this and any other Form16 provided by your employer (If you are employed and earning) and provide this to auditor. Your auditor can do the rest.
3. So many times some auditors are reluctent handle these things. In that case please contact IT dept. for auditors who will come to your place and submit the IT returns (They may charge you about Rs. 500/-). For me my brother does all these things and I have no other income since I am retired.
4. Now with in three months you will recive the information on your e-mail that the amount has been credited to your Bank A/C.
5. All these done electronically and there is no bribing.

6. THESE HAS BEEN DISCUSED ON IRC

  Mad Max said ... On : 6/16/2017 7:41:58 PM
@ Dhadakebaaz,

My CA is using a latest software programme for filing returns. He has imported the TDS details (26AS) direct from IT website to his programme. Sadly there is only two amounts shown - Gross Dividend paid and TDS deducted. So please someone should help us.

In an earlier discussion, few regulars of HT, said it is easy to file the IT returns and get the refund. Here I am requesting you those guys who have already filed IT returns with Horse Racing Income from Jackpot and claimed the Refund. I am expecting a detailed reply.

  DHADAKEBAAZ said ... On : 6/16/2017 6:39:45 PM
DEAR FRIEND

JUST 2 DAYS BEFORE ON LY I APPLIED FOR MY TDS ( IN HORSE RACING ) RETURN

AND ITS SUCCESSFULLY DONE BY MY FRIEND AT HYDERABAD

HE CHARGE ONLY 1200 FOR ME.

TRY TO DO FROM ANY OTHER CA WHO WORK ONLY ON THIS TYPE OF WORK.

ITS VERY SIMPLE.

SINCE LAST 7 YRS YEAR I AM RECEIVING MY RETURN REGULARLY.